Moi kaikkile! Uusi käyttäjä

[Otto_Ita]

Moi kaikille!

Minun nimi on Otto, olen italialainen ja olen uusi käyttäjä!

Asuin Suomessa noin 5 vuotta, ja totta kai en puhu suomeksi tosi hyvin (on tasi vaikea kieli!), olen töissä Joensussa ja minulla on kaunis Buell XB12s. Minulla on ollut paljon mootoripyörät kuin Husky 510/570, Kawa 500/250, KTM 495/350/250, Honda XR600/650 CR250, Yam TT600 WR250, Suz DR600 ja paljon RM250 2 tahti. En tykkää 4 tahti, olen "old School" (vanhan koulu).

Minun viimeinen Enduro on ollut yksi GasGas 300EC vuonna 2008... Sitten se on melkein 9 vuotta että en ajaa Enduron mootoripyörät! Liian paljon... Tarvitsen uusi Enduro mootoripyörä!

Haluaisin kysyä teille 2/3 kysymystä, kosta italiassa on kaikki paljon erilainen, ja en haluaisi olla ongelmia poliisi kanssa...

1) - Haluaisin ostaa Suzuki RM 250 2 tahti, koska minulla on ollut tämän moottoripyörä italiassa ja ajattelen se on tosi hauska ja helppo ajaa! Ongelma on että on "Crossi"... Sitten voin rekisteröidyn Crossi mootoripyörä, ottaa rekisterinumero ja ajaa tiella? Jos se on mahdollista, kuinka paljon se maksaa?

2) - Italiassa kaikki Enduro mootoripyörät ovät rekisterinumero, jos eivät, ei voi tehdä kilpailla tai ajaa tiella... Miksi suomessa kaikki Enduron mootoripyörät eivät olla rekisterinumerot?

3) - Missä voin ajaa Enduro? Minne voin mennä ja minne en pysty? Italiassa voin mennä kaikkialla jos ei ole kielto ilmoitus. Suomessa on paljon hiekkateitä, tai metsän tiet. Voinko ajaa siellä?


kiitos kaikille, jotka vastaa minulle!


Otto.

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Englaniksi


Hi to everybody!

My name is Otto, I am italian and I'm a new user!

I live in Finland from 5 years, and of course I don't speak finnish very well (is a really hard language!), I work in Joensuu and I have a beautiful Buell XB12s. I had a lot of dirtybikes like Husky 510/570, Kawa 500/250, KTM 495/350/250, Honda XR600/650 CR250, Yam TT600 WR250, Suz DR600 and many RM250 2 stroke. I don't like 4 strokes cause I am "old school" rider.

My last Enduro bike was an GasGas 300EC M.Y. 2008... So is almost 9 years that I don't ride an Enduro bike! Too much! I need a new Enduro bike!

I would ask You some questions, 'cause in Italy all is very different, and I wouldn't troubles with the police...

1) - I would buy an Suzuki RM250 2 stroke 'cause I had already this bike, and I think is a very funny and easy to drive in the dirt! Problem is that is a "Cross" bike... So can I register that bike, have a plate number and ride It on normal roads? If is possible, how much can cost?

2) - In Italy all the Enduro bikes must have the plate number, if they don't, racing or drive on tje roads is absolutely forbidden... Why in Finland all the Enduro bikes I seen have no plate number?

3) - Where I can practice Enduro? Where I can drive, and where is forbidden? In Italy I can go everywhere I want, important is that there is no warning-signals.
In Finland there are a lot of beautiful dirty-roads, or forest-roads: I can practice on that roads?

Many thanks to all of You that will answer me!


Otto

[Pete K2]

Moro Otto,

Tervetuloa porukkaan! Tämä on hyvä ja aktiivinen porukka. Täällä saa hyvin ja asiallisia vastauksia kysymyksiin.
Vastailen omasta puolestani ja muut varmasti täydentävät vastaustani.

1) Suzuki RM250 ei käsittääkseni saa Suomessa rekisteriin. Nyrkkisääntö on, että rekisteriin saa vain sellaisia moottoripyöriä, joita liikkeet myy uutena sekä rekisteröityinä että ilman rekisteriä. Käytännössä nämä ovat enduroja, esim KTM exc-mallit. Crossipyörää käytännössä ei saa rekisteriin.
Helpoimmalla pääset, jos ostat valmiiksi rekisteröidyn enduron. Myös 2-tahtisia myydään jonkin verran rekisteröityinä.
Jos kuitenkin päätät ostaa rekisteröimättömän enduron ja rekisteröidä se itse, niin siinä on muutamia vaatimuksia, jotka pitää toteutua. En muista niitä ulkoa, joten toivotaan, että joku muu kertoo niistä. Homma maksaa nyrkkisääntönä noin +-1000 eur.

2) Uusia enduroita myydään rekisteröityinä ja ilman rekisteriä. Jos et aja tiellä, vaan metsässä/crossiradalla/enduroradalla jne, niin voit ajaa myös rekisteröimättömällä. Tällöin säästät uudessa endurossa 1200-2900 eur. Kilpailuihin voi mennä myös rekisteröimättömällä. Tässä tapauksessa siihen haetaan siirtokilpi (punakilpi=punainen kilpi) ja silloin voi kilpailujen ajan ajaa tiellä, jotka liittyvät kilpailuihin.
Valkokilpi (rekisteröity) vs Punakilpi (rekisteröimätön) on puhtaasti raha kysymys.

3) Yleisillä teillä voi ajaa rekisteröidyllä laitteella. Suomessa iso osa pienistä hiekkateistä on yksityisteitä. Käytännössä niilläkin voi ajaa, jos tiellä ei ole puomia ja kieltokylttiä (Ajaminen sallittu vain tien osakkaille tai Läpiajo kielletty tai jne jne). Jos löydät hiekkatietäkin pienemmän ajotien (niinsanottu traktoriura), niin käytännössä se on lähes aina jonkin yksityisen tie, jolla ei saa ajaa ilman lupaa.
Metsässä tai pelloilla ei saa ajaa koskaan ilman lupaa.
Jos haluat ajaa metsässä, niin pitää kysyä maanomistajalta lupa tai mennä ajamaan virallisille enduroradoille (enduropolku). Niistä saa tietoa paikallisesta enduroseurasta.

No, tässä nyt alkuunsa. Muuta jatkaa ja täydentää.

-Pete

[Otto_Ita]

Moi Pete!
Kiitos avusta ja anteeksi jos vastaan sinulle myöhässä, olen aina kiire

Mutta nyt minä alan ymmärtää paremmin!

Sitten...
1) - Rekisteröidy on mahdollista jos Crossipyörä on valot, suuntavilkut, sarvi jne jne... Tarvitsen vain kaikki moottori ja runko tekniset tiedot, ja totta kai paljon raha! Mutta on mahdollista... Olen oikeassa?

2) - Valkokilpipyörä voi ajaa tiella koko ajan, se on oikein?

3) - Sinä kirjoitit: "mennä ajamaan virallisille enduroradoille (enduropolku). Niistä saa tietoa paikallisesta enduroseurasta". Yritin katsoa netissa varten, mutta en löytänyt mitään... Tiedätko jos Joensun kaupunki on paikallisesta enduroseurasta?


Kiitos, kiitos kiitos!


Otto.


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Englanniksi

Moi Pete, and many thanks for your answer, and sorry if I'm answering so late, but I'm always busy

But now I'm understanding much better!
So
1) - Register a Crossbike is possible if It have lights, turns lights, horn, etc etc... I need all the technical data about frame and engine and of course, a lot of money! But is possible, Right?
2) - White label bikes mean that can drive on the road normally, right?
3) - You wrote: "you can ride the officials enduro tracks (enduro trail) The local enduro company provide information about them"
I tried to look for the internet, but I could not find anything ... Do you know if the City of Joensuu have an local enduro company?

Super thanks!

Otto.

[Hsippe]

1: Et / No (Or maybe yes, but it will cost you a lot more than a brand new (white plate) enduro bike).

2: Kyllä / yes

3: Information from SML:
http://www.kisat.moottoriliitto.fi/kerh ... u=&page=12

Pohjois-Karjalan Moottorikerho ry (P-KMK), Joensuu
Jukka Varis, puh. 050-3250381
webmaster@pkmk.info
www.pkmk.info

[meikä]

Hi Otto,

the bikes you see without the normal white registration plate can not be used on road as said. Some remove the plate if they only use the bike offroad, some do not register their bikes. Registering a bike has tax, about 20% of it's value whether it is old or new, that is why not everyone registers their bikes even if it would be possible. Only bikes with european approval and complete paperwork and history can be registered, I think this is the same in italy. Like ktm has exc models which are approved and sx models which are not. How easy it is to register a used bike varies on how easy it is to get the right approval documents and so on, but generally it is better to buy a registered and plated enduro because it is a lot easier. However if you have all the papers or the bike is registered in another european country and bike is in original condition etc. it is not difficult or expensive, apart from the tax (10-20%).

You can enter competitions with unregistered bike. Because the route may go on public roads, you will need a temporary sticker with red letters. This can only be used for official and organized event and has a daily fee which includes insurance. The rider is responsible for the road worthiness of the vehicle. You may re-use the sticker and that is why some leave it on bike. You can also use this to move an unregistered vehicle temporarily on the road, but only through preset route. Also imported cars which have not got a finnish registeration plate yet may have a sticker.

You can bring a HM moto CR250R two stroke from italy Those have e-approval and the latest alu-frame CR is a beautiful bike. It was never sold in here and that is why there are no registered two stroke honda's in here.

[Otto_Ita]

@Hsippe...

Kiitos avusta...
Tottakai tiesin ettá oli todella kallis... Italiassa o noin 1,000€, ajattelen että suuomessa on pieni kalliimpi (noin 1500€).

Olin pieni pettynyt koska en ole paljon raha (tottakai), ja en tykkää 4 tahti tai KTM (pds...). Mutta haluaisin osta halvalla Suzpyörä ja uudista nollasta yksin. Olen hyvä mekaniikko, maalari, entisöijä.

Sina olit tosi todella avulias minulle! Ja seurava viikkona haluan mennä tavataan herra Jukka Varis!

Kitos!

Otto.

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Thanks for the help!

Of course I knew that was really expensive... In Italy is about 1,000€, and I think that in Finland could be little bit more expensive (around 1,500€).

I'm little bit disappointed 'cause I haven't too much money (of course...), and I really don't like 4 strokes or KTM (for the PDS). But I wanted to buy a very cheap Suzuki RM and rebuilt It from zero by myself. I am a good mechanic, painter, restorer.

Anyway you was very helpful for me! And the next week I'll try to meet Mr Jukka Varis.

Super thanks!


Otto

[Otto_Ita]

Hi Meikä!

I'll write straight in English 'cause i'll talk about things that I can't explain jet in finnish... Suomen kieli on niin vaikea!


Ok, you hit the bullseye! In Italy there are a lot of wonderful Japanese bikes regularly registered 'cause there is the HM (honda, like the great Mika Ahola did) and Valenti Racing (http://www.valentiracing.eu/vehicle_type/enduro/) that register every Cross bike, you need only to pay more that the Cross version. Even Yam and Kaw have italians importers that trasform the Cross bike into Enduro.

I thought that I can ask for the technical data sheets to the Valenti Racing, bring the paperworks and history to the Motor Agency and try to register the bike...

In this way I should pay around the 20% of the bike value? But the value of a new bike, or "market" value? Because if I should pay the 20% of a 2005/2008 RM (around 2,500€), mean only 500€! Is really good price...

The original idea was to buy a very cheap RM250 (less than 2000€) and rebuilt It from zero, 'cause I'm a good mechanic, painter, builter. I know that It seems a big nonsense... But I really like the Suz RM (even the CR is a great bike, like engine is even better than the RM!).

Import a bike fron Italy is over 1,000 + 600 (omaisuudensiirto, damned italian burocracy!) and I must go there to sign all the papers! Is not possible, I surely will loose the job.

I'm little bit disappointed 'cause I wanted to use this winter to "built" the bike... But seems too much complicate for my wallet. I even found one nice Valenti SuzRM250 on the net, but is not registered and really, really too much expensive to me! Bad luck!

In every case, you was really helpful to me, I don't wanna give up! I want to return to ride an Enduro bike in the wonderful countryside of Finland! Maybe I can bring with me the fishing rod, and stop somewhere to catch a big hauki!



Kiitos, Otto.

[meikä]

The tax is calculated from estimated market value of the bike, in an old bike it is not much. It depends on the cubic capacity http://www.vero.fi/fi-FI/Henkiloasiakka ... uvo(40036)

Yes unfortunately it is not possible to take any bike and make it identical to HM/Valenti or so and register it, it has to be original. You might find some bikes registered according to local exceptions in some countries like sweden, but if they do not have the european approval it may be impossible to bring them to finland and register them. XR650R is one famous bike like this. Somebody else can tell better, but feels like the very few registered in here were allowed by a mistake

[dq]

Hello Otto,

there was a registered version of the RM 250 called RMX, every now and then one comes up for sale (they are pretty rare). From approx. -88 to -91 or -92. Pretty much the only way to get a 2-stroke RM with plates in Finland without a Valenti bike.

[Otto_Ita]

XR650R is one famous bike like this. Somebody else can tell better, but feels like the very few registered in here were allowed by a mistake

Nice mistake! Was a very nice bike... Only the seat was really too high for heavy Off-Road! Me and my brother made over 80,000 Km (Africa, middle-East, around Europe...) and we had no problem... Never!

Anyway the link you posted is really important to understand how the finnish law works. We'll see what happen...

Maybe I succeeded to find little bit more money to buy the Valenti Suz RM250E I found in south of Finland... Even if like a suicide for my finances!
I have the blood pressure to 1,000!



Moi, Otto.

[Otto_Ita]

Hello Otto,

there was a registered version of the RM 250 called RMX, every now and then one comes up for sale (they are pretty rare). From approx. -88 to -91 or -92. Pretty much the only way to get a 2-stroke RM with plates in Finland without a Valenti bike.

Moi "dq"!

Thanks for the tips, I already knew the Suz RMX 250, even if I didn't know that was even in Finland! In Italy was really rare, and if I have to say all, was not such a good bike...

Was the "road-version" of the RM, in Italy had even the oil-mixer (S Version). I tested one, when I was "young and mad", It didn't like to me. In every case is too old, and I can't find It in Finland... But I think that you're right when you say that is the easier way to get an registered RM in Finland

The Valenti RM250E is really expansive here... I hope to be lucky!



Otto.